Noob questions

[Anonymous No.58447893]

Could someone explain to me how Margin/Leverages trading actually works?
I read the FAQ of ByBit's page but it's very over the head stuff numbers and percentages without proper examples given to a basic newbie.

Say I have $1000 and decide to buy BTC with x3 leverage, how bad are the maintenance fees? Do I have to have money on account balance where it's taken or is the money taken directly from long position investment holding?
And basically that buying with leverages in mind is race against the clock hoping for good growth before shorting, do I understand that right?

There was some beginner's thread to crypto week ago or so which makes me realize how little there is to help truly new people into trading, which seems counterintuitive from what people want aka growth.

[Anonymous No.58447915]

>>58447893
Don't use margin trading as a retail (none institutional / pleb) customer. You are statistically more likely to lose as opposed to gain.

[Anonymous No.58447923]

>>58447893
Since your a cluessless newfag top buyer you probably won't listen to anyone telling you to not use leverage.
You'll have to learn the lesson yourself first. Just buy something for 100$ and then see what happens. Anything we tell you now you will ignore.

[Anonymous No.58447970]

>>58447915
Why is that? I'm asking for information on how it actually works, not why I would lose magically if I were to do it.

>>58447923
I'm not in a hurry anywhere and want to learn terms and trading. I did buy BTC 2 weeks ago for 1000 dollars when it was at 64k without using any leverage, I can just hold indefinitely and didn't panic sell or anything when it dipped this week hard.
But even then, if and when BTC will rise up to 100k, with my 1000 dollar investment, that's only 500 dollar profit. At best I can add another 1000 now and make it 1000, but dude, really when it reaches 100k from 64k?..

[Anonymous No.58447991]

>>58447970
>>58447893
Leverage is usually better fit for Daytraders because the commision and interest rate that it uses usually is a risk for long term holders. Leverage essentially lets you work with xtimes your money, so if you have $1000 and use x3 leverage you're working with $3000, so say if BTC went up 10% you'd be up 300 instead of just 100. It works sideways though, if it goes down 10% you're down 300 instead of 100. The reason anons are warning you is because of liquidation.
As you'd imagine, whoever is lending you money can't really afford to lose it. So you're taking $2000 in credit, so if your investment went down by 50%, your position would be automatically liquidated (usually earlier to account for interests) you would lose the entirety of your $1000, instead of just $500 without leverage, and if the price went up, it wouldn't matter, because your investment was already terminated, as opposed to no leverage, which allows you to hold through the pain.
You should only leverage in short term (really short term, maximum 2 days) or if you're 100% sure price will only go up from your investment start (and then you can close the position (or sell) if you see it starting to go down back to your starting point). Because otherwise you risk losing everything, as opposed to losing a percentage of your initial investment. Interest rates vary, binance for example uses an hourly rate of around 0.01% of your lent money (so you'd be paying 2 bucks for every hour you're using leverage and not closing your position, and giving back said lent money)

[Anonymous No.58448037]

>>58447991
In Binance leverage fees and the credit itself is paid back after you close your position. The money they give you to do stuff with is not accounted in your investment and has to be "manually" repaid. So in essence it's not really gonna move unless you call it off and sell whatever you had invested into, and then close your position. It doesn't automatically take money off your account. Though you should play with that in mind, that once you're done you have to both give the credit and the interest back.
They also have a "margin" system indicator that tells you how close you are to being liquidated. The bigger that number is, the better. If you have extra money on your margin account, said indicator gets bigger, because liquidation comes at a later stage. (I said you'd have to be down 50% from 3000 to be liquidated, I was wrong, it only takes 33% to be liquidated in said situation) So if you were to have 1000 as x3 but an extra 1000 laying around there you'd be liquidated when your investment goes down around 66%. That's the only difference.

[Anonymous No.58448051]

>>58447970
>Why is that? I'm asking for information on how it actually works, not why I would lose magically if I were to do it.
Shrimple, and it's not magic.

Investment banks and hedge funds have vast amounts of other peoples money they can use to back their margin trades, so the price can move up or down quite a lot before they get liquidated.

The public, even milly-airs, don't. So they all tend to get rinsed.

This is why all the exchanges have warnings on them for retail customers saying
>on average xx% of retail customers lose money margin trading
The xx figure is usually in the 65 to 75% of trades.

People with gambling problems love it because they assume they'll be in the 25% of trades that don't each time. And then lose over and over agen.

To give an idea of what you're up against, statistically you'd have a safer bet flipping a coin. This is how you end up with those stories of people losing their entire savings in a year, assuming the shitcoiners didn't get to them first and they didn't buy the top.

Now that I've saved you from the margin degen and my good deed for this year is done, I must return to my busy work shitposting elsewhere.

>do not margin trade anon

[Anonymous No.58448122]

>>58447991
>>58448037
>>58448051
Thanks for the informative posts anon. Well daytrading is exactly what I'm looking into since I got nothing else going on. But clearly it is hard and even more gambling involved with leverages.
I wish there were more definite examples though costs wise whether the longing has made profit. Let's say;

I buy coin 'X' for 1000 dollars with x3 leverage when its value is 15000, I'm ByBit user so all the interest and maintenance fees calculated in, if X's value raises to 15150 within 40 minutes which is 1% increase, I short all of it, on paper it was $32 profit without me currently knowing how much interest and fees are. I wonder what it really would be, 25 bux profit in the end?

I obviously won't get rich with 1-2k investments in BTC in my lifetime even when it hits 100k, just 500-1000 usd profit on top of what I have.. even normal stocks can have similar profit increases for by the end of the year calculations.. Gotta start daytrading and learn how to make small wins with each peak and dip.

[Anonymous No.58448131]

>>58448122
>I short all of it, on paper it was $32 profit without me currently knowing how much interest and fees are. I wonder what it really would be, 25 bux profit in the end?
Yes, that's exactly how it works. If you're looking to make quick profits-within the hour look onto coins cheaper than your capital: for example, it's much more difficult for a coin like Bitcoin to rise 1% than it is for, say Doge due to Market Caps, although they all follow BTC's movements. So 1k in Ethereum is tending to grow much slower than 1k in PEPE or LINK or some other coin that it's unit price is less than 1k. It's possible to make it big by playing it safe anon, it's actually kinda one of the best ways.

[Anonymous No.58448171]

>>58447970
You know how you make more money? By stopping to be poor. Unironically.
Maybe I'm just not in tune with the normie mind any more. But why exactly do you think you deserve to be rich just because youre putting 1000$ on the line?
Why do you think leverage is a cheat code? If it was, why isn't everybody else doing it. You aren't the first newfag to lose his money trading on leverage. What exactly makes you think you are different than the 100s of ppl who asked the exact question and become my exit liquidity?

[Anonymous No.58448184]

>>58448131
This is another thing I come across reading but don't know what it means, what does exactly market cap mean and do?
Also are there any other helpful sites like;
https://coinstats.app/crypto-profit-calculator/
https://www.winrate.io/

>>58448171
>By stopping to be poor. Unironically.
The fuck sort of advice is this? I don't think I deserve to be rich, I'm here asking dumb questions because I'm genuinely interested in daytrading as a source of income because I have none other really.
I don't think leverage is a cheat code here, I'm just trying to get better understanding of its risks and how much you really gain if you get say 1% increase in said crypto's value and short what you had for profit. The basic stuff in form or real examples and not weird percentage math some broker FAQ offers that goes over my head.

[Anonymous No.58448190]

>>58448184
Market cap is what gives value to a coin. Take market cap and divide it by the circulating number of current coins to get the price of an individual coin. As you may see, logically as the market cap goes down, the price gets more sensitive, which means that it is easier to see big volatile changes in lower marketcap coins. Very low MCAPS are dangerous though because they're subject to the classic needful pattern (fake pump of the prices so when you join they basically take your money and pull the rug)
I know of no other sites. I use cryptowaves for RSI and that's it. It helps that I'm an econ. student so I make all my calcs manually.
Don't listen to the other doomful retards on this board. 99% of the people think of "making it" which is amassing millions of dollars. They don't think on the day to day basis, as most of them are bagholders on the long term. However, it is true that coins pump or dump in great portion thanks to liquidations, so tread carefully; the odds are never in your favor, specially when you search for greater % benefits.
Never leverage what you can't afford. Some idiot here got liquidated for leveraging 25x ETH and not calling the bottom correctly. Max 10x leverage, and that's if you're very confident. This is a rule to live by.

[Anonymous No.58448268]

>>58448184
>I'm here asking dumb questions because I'm genuinely interested in daytrading
if you have to ask these dumb questions to begin with it means you are not fit to be a trader.

[Anonymous No.58448291]

>>58448190
I see.
Since you're a student doing calcs manually, are there some methods you keep using a lot that could help a lot going forward?
Either way this has been good self-assurance of things. I think what I'm gonna focus on is just daytrading with BTC once it goes above when I bought in and focus on just simple 1-2% wins, short, let it dip and buy in, rinse repeat pattern for small meagre dollarinos without using leverages since at least in BTC people have belief and faith that it will go up way, way more in the future still and I'm not in a hurry so I can always hold without taking losses. Not that it's even with BTC foolproof, anything can happen in this world of course and week from now it might dip 40k and I have to wait for a year before my 1k is back to being worth what it was.

>>58448268
How do you think anyone starts daytrading? Do you think traders know the stuff from birth? Retarded attitude.

[Anonymous No.58448304]

>>58448291
Present Value and net profit function are useful. I constructed the latter on my own but it's very intuitive, it's just the difference in margins of buy and sell price and quantities.
I recommend diving into Technical Analysis, it's an ocean too deep to swallow but you only need to grasp it at surface, like 40% of it. It by no means is a tell of how things will go however, it just gives near estimates.
Good luck trading anon.

[Anonymous No.58448694]

>>58448184
You cannot trade your way out of poverty. I know you think you can do a 1000$ to 1 million challenge because you saw some dude on tik tok do it, but thats some dude in his early 20s trying to farm engagement to get ad money

>people don't know this from birth

YOU are incapable because you don't even understand trading isn't a cheat code. You are "trading" your time and increasing your risk to outperform holding by a couple of percent.
You do not understand this and think you, some dude who can't even figure basic shit out could make money instead of just losing everything.

I'll repeat it again. It's not a cheat code. It won't make you rich. It won't even make you a lot of money fast even IF you do it right. All it does is make you a little more money over time than if you simply bought.
Only people with the right mindset ever succeed as traders. High iq is also important but less than the mindset, and clearly none of both of these apply to you.

[Anonymous No.58448702]

>>58448184
>what is market cap
holy shit lol what a retard
PLEASE post here with how much money you lose when you leverage trade like a retard despite everyone telling you not to
retards like you deserve to have their capital syphoned off from them, it's a sign of a well functioning economy when people like you are broke, in debt, and miserable.

[Anonymous No.58448725]

>>58447893
In simple terms

Long means you borrow btc from Bybit at price you specify. When you decide to close your order, it will sell btc you bought. Any difference you make you take home, less maintenance fee and less transaction fee.

Sell order you borrow btc from Bybit and immediately sell it. When you close position you take the difference, less maintenance fee and transaction fees.

If you long(buy) 64k close(sell) 65k you make profit. If you long(buy) 64k close(sell) 63k you take a loss. If you short(sell) 64k close(buy) 63k you earn profit. Short(sell) 64k close(buy) 65k you take a loss.

At 3x margin, your $1000 would buy $3000 worth of btc, but you only own $1000 of it (actually a bit less). If you take loss even before closing your trade and that loss is bigger than $1000, your whole investment loses. Higher margin means price movement of btc multiplies your income or loss. It allows traders with less capital move more than what they have. You essentially take a loan from predatory cryptojew. Cryptojew will own you unless you are exceedingly good or if you have institutional backing with access to better analysis than you could ever get.

Maintenance fees are specified above the chart when you look at desktop version or you can check menus to find it on a phone. They are small, but counted every few hours. They are counted from 3k you buy with margin, not your 1k. Same with buy and sell fees.

The only reason someone like you should use futures to long btc is if you get lucky enough to see at exact milisecond when Elon posts than he is buying 200 billion of btc with spare tesla funds and you will already be too late anyway because bots and market makers will best you to it.

Just to reiterate, individual traders very rarely even remain without losses, let alone make profit. Either treat this as roulette table where house has 99% edge on you or practice on demo account for 3 years before putting real money in

[Anonymous No.58449040]

>>58448725
This isn't even correct. Are there only retards on here.
If by long you mean a futures long on bybit then you take 100$ worth of USDT and use that as an asset backed loan to get 100$ x leverage of a futures contract denominated in $ that tracks the price of bitcoin.
You aren't "borrowing" bitcoin at any point in time.
If you were to get a "crypto loan", either with leverage or not (then usually called margin trading", then you get like 0.006 btc by locking up 100$ worth of usdt.
The only real reason you would do this is to sell it and thus creating a sort of "short" position because you owe back 0.006 btc that you then got back the USDT value at sale point for.

If you are margin long bitcoin, you are borrowing USDT.

With USDT margined futures you are never borrowing or loaning out bitcoin. You are simply getting a contract sized by the amount of collateral you provide that tracks the price of the asset you want to trade.

[Anonymous No.58449049]

>>58448694
With a bit of luck it's possible. I put in 1 or 2k last bullrun and reached high 6 figures with it

[Anonymous No.58449063]

I'm having a really tough time understanding this thread. I put in about 200 euros yesterday, bought 25 meme coins and sold today, I'm at 193 euros currently and have no clue of what happened during the entire thing. I thought I'd learn things by trying them out, I have zero clue about what happened and have learned absolutely nothing. I'm confused, I don't know what's going on and the layout of Kraken makes me even more confused. I should have lost money theoretically as the value of the meme coin I bought plummeted the very moment I bought, but went up a small fraction by the time I sold. I'm sitting here wondering exactly what the fuck happened and I still have no clue.

[Anonymous No.58449086]

>>58447991
>Leverage is usually better fit for Daytraders because the commision and interest rate that it uses usually is a risk for long term holders. Leverage essentially lets you work with xtimes your money, so if you have $1000 and use x3 leverage you're working with $3000, so say if BTC went up 10% you'd be up 300 instead of just 100. It works sideways though, if it goes down 10% you're down 300 instead of 100. The reason anons are warning you is because of liquidation.
I bought the equivalent of 100 euros on a margin trade and sold, I lost almost nothing despite the value in which I bought gave me minimal profits. I'm confused because according to you, I should have been down a lot more than I am, and the only thing I lost in money was probably the fees I had to pay. It was a 3x margin trade on a volatile coin and I lost nothing.

[Anonymous No.58449105]

>>58448694
Dogshit 'advice', you're just claiming you were born a mega trader who knew all the terms and technicality to trading since you were 5 years old. That's why I'm here, to ask and learn, not only that you actively refuse to read what has been said, I genuinely don't think this is a cheat code, it's work, a lot of work, doing meagre small trades to win small bux home slowly, is indeed trading time which is what I have given healthy neet bux sitting at home on PC.
By all means tell me where you learned all of this stuff to become high iq with the right mindset, school? A book?
You think I didn't have right mindset not panic selling when BTC fell down to 56k this week from 65k? Lot of other anons sold, the pink wojak threads are testament to that.

Either way I'm going to focus on BTC, like I said, if people believe it will go to 100k, it will, I shant sell at loss at any moment of my trades since I can just indefinitely hold, 64k is my starting point. Do you understand that written sentiment?
Obfuckingviously BTC can and might plummet to 10k for years to come suddenly, which is a loss taken or baghold forever for its return, but that's life then, stocks are a risk always.

>>58448702
Already said few times I won't be using leverages for now but reading is hard.

[Anonymous No.58449128]

>>58448291
>How do you think anyone starts daytrading? Do you think traders know the stuff from birth?
simple, they figure all this shit out on their own, they dont walk around begging people to spoonfeed them.
they do their own research and develop their own strategies.
if you are not capable of this you can never become a profitable trader.

[Anonymous No.58449133]

>>58449128
>comes to a board that mainly talks about trading cryptocurrencies
>gets upset when someone asks about trading cryptocurrencies
Because he's not posting a green wojak thread saying ''AAAAAAAAAA'' it's clearly not relevant according to you.

[Anonymous No.58449184]

>>58449105
You don't even have any specific questions, youre really just looking to get spoonfed. But trading is more of an art than a science, you can't just spoonfeed someone info until they magically turn long term profitable.

You showed your colors right at the start.
>But even then, if and when BTC will rise up to 100k, with my 1000 dollar investment, that's only 500 dollar profit. At best I can add another 1000 now and make it 1000, but dude, really when it reaches 100k from 64k?..

If you are trying to trade with 1000$ you are wasting your time. Get a job. Or if you already have a job, get a better job, or get another job.

With a job, saving an extra 10-20k every year is piss-easy. Making that money as PROFIT trading is hard as hell. Don't listen to these larps telling you how they made 6 figures off of shitcoins. They feed it all back to the market and 1-2 years later they are probably in the red.

I am following several terminals, and I only have seconds or minutes at best to react at all times and have programmed my own scripts to for API access to 7 different exchanges, yet my trading still only earns like 10% of what my WFH job does.
I'm so far ahead of you'll probably never catch up, and there are plenty of people so far ahead of me I might turn unprofitable at any point.

[Anonymous No.58449212]

>>58449128
How do you learn on your own if you don't understand what something is? What is this board for? What the actual fuck?
I'm doing research, I've been browsing the board for 3 weeks before I bought in myself to start holding and learn more things. But I can say this board hasn't been very helpful with the osmosis learning, lot of anons talk about things in 'cryptic' ways, even to each other or basically just to themselves in a void, so it's definitely gatekept hard, no wonder this board became graveyardish after the email verification with bots and shills gone but that's besides the point.

>>58449184
I've asked what is leverage and how do they work in practical terms, I've asked what does market cap entail and mean. What on earth do you mean not specific questions? If it's being spoonfed, well so be it and close the thread or something if it's not interesting. I'm not expecting anything to magically turn into profit, I've said this probably half a dozen times now. It's behind work and time and since I'm a neet, I have nothing but time on my hands.

Sure but for now I'm not planning on getting any work and haven't had any in a decade, this is something I'd like to pursue on my own. Even earning 500€ on top of what I currently have would make me happy if it takes a whole year. I don't really hold interest in shitcoins as so many share their stories getting rugged and I've seen some shilled attempts past month here in which after they came, they vanished and suddenly no one talked about them anymore.
One thing I've seen few anons talk about is using PinkSale platform to invest in debuting coins initially and immediately sell after launch, making ''safe profit'' but that's something I need to see and learn more of before I even think of trying that.

Well good for you, it must have taken you long time to learn all that to put into good use.

[Anonymous No.58449249]

>>58449212
You aren't making 500€ on 1000€. I mean you might make that amount by doing something retarded on leverage, but you'll lose it right away.
You pretend like youre trying to "learn" but youre ignoring my actual advice.
Not liking to go outside is not a reason you'll be a profitable trader. Thats just a delusional NEET fantasy. In fact, the best traders are working at desks where they probably got into with their math PHD plus a large dose of nepotism.
If you want to make money by buying crypto thats fine and probably a good idea.
Those quants working at jane street or whatever are pushing millions, hundreds of millions sometimes.
Maybe you have accepted that 1000€ won't make you rich, but literally what is the point of trading all day to make 500€? You could have literally just done nothing, maybe bought btc, eth and a 10-20% alt bag, delete your binance app and sell a year later and be up 2000€, and you can do whatever the fuck you wan't all day.

[Anonymous No.58449478]

>>58449249
This but move some of that into APU. You're really better off treating crypto as a (good) savings account, somewhat volatile, with the potential to explode out of nowhere

[Anonymous No.58449610]

>>58449133
>gets upset
I'm not upset, but you clearly are.
but its all true, if you cant figure all this shit out on your own you will not become a profitable trader. a profitable trader does not run around and ask stupid questions.
I mean there is no shame in that, not everyone can do it. not everyone can be a profitable trader. you most certainly cant. just accept it.
>>58449212
>How do you learn on your own
do you seriously dont know how to learn on your own?
>I'm doing research, I've been browsing the board for 3 weeks before I bought in myself
thats not what "doing research" is.

[Anonymous No.58451025]

must just heard about crypto and trading literally yesterday to have the nerve to come online and ask what market cap is. I've been on forums for years and it always baffles me the questions people ask waiting for answers they can get by simply googling. Good luck.