/lit/ - Literature

>>16980231
No, there is none.

>>16980231
>we gave all of our kids devices that play off of their internal reward system with minimal effort wow why are they all addicted

no but there's probably an essay about how every generation in the history of forever has decried the newest generation as being hopeless.

>>16980231
Amusing Ourselves to Death: Public Discourse in the Age of Show Business
Book by Neil Postman

Written pre-internet

>>16980231
Salman Rushdie's The Old Man in the Piazza
>>16980276
Good choice.

Douglas Rushkoff, the one from like 2010

>>16980849
Sorry, present shock it is called

>>16980264
Yeah, bro, it's not like kids these days aren't becoming more depres- Oh they are. I feel sorry for zoomers. They did nothing wrong yet they'll pay for their parents mistakes.

>>16980231
The Culture of Narcissism

>>16980231
Oh good question OP. Like, for example, why didn't young people in the 1940s get addicted to the internet/social media I wonder?

>>16980264
Maybe each generation has been right in that regard and we've been slowly degenerating.

capitalist realism by mark fisher has a chapter on it and references a few related essays about the the subject

>>16980231
Addicted is a strong word. Its not like most people when seperated from electronic devices will display symptoms of withdrawal. The internet and other such is simply a tool with no end to what it can be used for. Asking why we use it is just as stupid as asking why we read books or use screwdrivers, except neither of them are as omni applicable as the internet.

>>16980264
yeah its definitely the same each generation, especially when new technology like the internet, constant communication and the rest of modern life's luxurious technology fundamentally changing how humans perceive reality. its such a fucking beddit tier midwit psued braindead fucking argument you have. 'hurr durr le wrong generation muh beddit wholesome keanu chungus'. society has objectively changed, humans have objectively changed over time. its not a debate. so sure this phenomenon probably happens, but in many cases they're fucking right. insufferable fucking idiot just use your brain for 5 seconds please.

>>16980231
Nope

>>16980917
Exactly. Just like Ovid’s ages, people are degrading a bit with each passing generation. The mistake is believing “omg Zoomers are the worst generation evar!” Zoomers aren’t the worst, the generations after them will be even worse. This is confirmed by entropy.

I made this list, but I don't really see it as being complete -- or a good name for the list. However, this should give you some headway into answering your question.

>>16980231
It's not just the adolescent. Look at Twitter if you want to see all of the 20-39 year olds shitposting like it's 4chan, and go on Facebook to find all the boomers reposting Qanon and conspiracy bullshit.

>>16980958
>Its not like most people when seperated from electronic devices will display symptoms of withdrawal
This isn't true. A majority of people, especially zoomers get withdrawal symptoms.

>>16980958
>Its not like most people when seperated from electronic devices will display symptoms of withdrawal
You must be out of your fucking mind.

>>16980958
>Its not like most people when seperated from electronic devices will display symptoms of withdrawal
I did
but I was high on amphetamines so maybe the withdrawal was just that

>>16980958
>The internet and other such is simply a tool with no end to what it can be used for
Let's laugh at him, bro.

>>16981083
It's true though, give a kid (or anyone) access to the internet, but only give them the ability to access Wikipedia or some other encyclopedia and see how quickly they grow bored of it. People are addicted to Tik-Tok, memes, 4chan, video games, etc. But not "the internet"

>>16980465
Four Arguments for the Elmimination of Television by Jerry Mander was also written pre internet. Its more about societal control though.

>>16981091
I'm so sorry for you.

something something peterson

>>16981091
before I knew of these shitholes I had fun browsing wikipedia as a kid and I think it was pretty usual

>>16980264
>>16980958
>>16981091

>>16981091
I spent hours on Wikipedia when I was a kid. The kids who spend their time on Wikipedia are the kids who would otherwise read; the kids who spend their time on 4chan are the kids who would otherwise socialize.

>>16981110
>>16981120
>I browsed Wikipedia as a kid and look how I turned out!

>>16981120
what about the kids that browsed wikipedia but then became adults that browse 4chan
should they kill themselves

>>16981148
I browsed 4chan as a kid and look how I turned out

>>16981148
?
I'm the first you quoted. I didnt try to imply browsing wikipedia as a kid made me superior, I just wanted to point out that it isnt just social media what gets people hooked

>>16981155
wrong image

>>16981163
suicide/jail when

>>16980264
That's bullshit. People have lived relatively the same lifestyle for thousands of years. The industrial revolution, increased literacy rates and rapid advance of technology is what caused each generation to have massively different beliefs than their parents. The world I grew up in is not the same as the one my grandparents grew up in, yet somebody born 1000 years ago would have an almost identical lifestyle to their grandparents.

>>16981155
based jokewood

>>16980958
>Its not like most people when seperated from electronic devices will display symptoms of withdrawal
You haven't interacted much with zoomers, have you? They go apeshit the minute they lost their phones or their battery ends.

>>16980231
Check Jaron Lanier OP. I read Not Gadgets. It's pretty comprehensive, and he's an insider to the industry.

>>16981026
thanks

>>16980264
yes and they were right

>>16981234
>I read Not Gadgets
Can you give a quick rundown? I want something I can immediately apply to my life, I'm desperate.

>>16980231
>why today's younger generations
Because the older generation aren't addicted to the internet/social media?
My parents are boomers in their sixties, they routinely stay up past midnight to watch Netflix shows even though they have to get up at 6 for work. Before that they used to read much more.

>>16981234
interesting

>>16981255
You can be old and be addicted to any social network. You can also be be young and not care about the trendy, narcissism that exists in such platforms as well.

>>16980917
If that were true we would have hit our peak somewhere before the invention of writing. More probably there are high and lows, but the strangeness of youth always comes as distress to the ageing.

the whole internet/social media/porn/technology addiction thing makes me way more suicidal that it should

>>16981002
Entropy hasn't much to do with it, unless you use the notion in an all-encompassing and completely unrigorous sense that misses the whole point.

My little sister complains that her friends are hopelessly addicted to their phones, they barely even look at each other or engage in conversation when they hang out. I guess they just sit near each other and browse tiktok or something. It's very depressing. I'm starting to wish I was born in any other time period.

>>16981264
True, but the more general point is that everyone is vulnerable to entertainment. Pascal already wrote masterfully about this in the 17th century.

>>16981252
Yeah, though, maybe 10 Reasons to Delete Your Social Media would probably be easier applied.

In Gadgets, he goes into detail about web architecture, and outlines what he sees as a problem in how we absorb information and knowledge and how the web is creating a hive-mind or consciousness of sorts, makes the case for Tech leaders being "digital maoists" and offers some solutions from his view as a long time developer and computer philosophy expert.

I've heard his later works are even better, but I haven't read them yet. Dawn of the New Everything seems related to OPs request though.

>>16980264
O tempora! O mores!

I'm literally the next Hitler.

AMA.

>>16981269
Is it because of having yourself being compared to others, hence you see yourself in a low social position? If not, I would like to hear why

>>16981285
Exactly. It's so sad to see a bunch of young people just staring at their screen when they could be having a badass time

>>16980231
here ya go

>>16980973
Go outside for once you insufferable faggot. Society has changed but does that mean for the worst? We don't only time will tell, but people adapt and mature over time. Zoomers will save the world.

>>16981328
>Is it because of having yourself being compared to others, hence you see yourself in a low social position? If not, I would like to hear why
Because I'm "addicted" to this crap and I find it such a pathetic form of misery. I dont have social media and just started browsing this place again recently.
Huge amounts of time and my youth wasted.
I would rather be addicted to opiates. It was an actual interesting addiction, and interesting form of misery, at least just in a subjective way, it was "an experience" . Being unable to stop using a phone is pathetic.
And to think it isnt just me and it is actually the majority makes it worst.

I think /LIT/ is the final social media boss.

>>16981359

>>16981428
Act impulsively then smash your phone(or sell) and only get a flip phone for work or making calls. Get rid or your computer as well.

>>16981464
Then where I'd read books? I'm a poorfag.

>>16980231
Just get a Grimm's and read the Pied Piper of Hamelin. If you're looking to save yourself then throw all your shit out the window and run

Most of Sherry Turkle's latest books. She used be a big advocate for online personae being liberating and yay progress, but now she's done a 180 on her career and is mostly looking at the fallout of recommending online living to the exclusion of all else.

>>16981488
Used book store? Getting a job? Kindle? The library just return them and its free.

>>16981464
but how do I keep in touch with the people I like, I only use whatsapp
No way I would get rid of the pc, thats where I have my PDFs for my classes, and the way I get to even have classes and uni in general

>>16981502
>Used book store
No money. I used to buy used books before, I have no problem with them.
>Getting a job
Can't do. Argentina post-pandemic, lovely place. I can barely eat.
>Kindle
Again, no money.
>library
I'm avoiding going there. I lended my membership to a relative and she hasn't paid since early 2019 (I was living in another city, I found out this just about two months ago).

>>16980231
Its the same as asking why Africans keep reproducing. Because of the parents. I think adults who have children need to have personal responsibility until their child becomes an adult.

>>16981525
>the way I get to even have classes and uni in general
That's the tricky part, they alway got you with something. I'm starting to think Ted wasn't that wrong. If you're leaving the system, you should leave it as a hole. No pc, no cellphone, no uni, nothing.

>>16981547
Embrace monkee bros

>>16981536
Go to another library? Or read in library? You can't do any side gigs? Or how about this don't read in the mean time.

>>16981525
Just call to keep in touch. Would suggest getting a shitty pc or make your set up so uncomfortable that you can't be on it for more then a couple hours.

>>16981536
>I can barely eat.
Is arg that bad, capo?

>>16980231
Because they didn't have internet/social media in previous generations ya doofus.

>>16981536
Pelotudo ask her what's up with the membership

>>16981585
A 20 something year old is also a young person, but there are people younger than that.

>>16981558
Man, I'm reading niche shit, the library doesn't have what I'm looking for most of the time anyways. Not that niche, actually, but far from the average reader, and the library is expending all their money on YA shit the people "suggest". There's only one big library, it's a small city, the rest of them are cringe.
And yes, I'm doing stuff, but not enough to buy books. They're pretty expensive, more so when you want them in a foreign language (the taxes placed on importation here are fucked up).

>>16981580
Look how we rank in the Country risk list. That should tell you all.

>>16981571
>calling people
Nobody does this anymore.

>>16981635
what what's done then

>>16980231
The Shallows: What the Internet Is Doing to Our Brains by Nicholas Carr
Your Brain on Porn: Internet Pornography and the Emerging Science of Addiction By Gary Wilson

>>16981635
The point is to get away from your phone and pc. If you're too afraid to call someone then ok just stick with the phone then.

>>16981624
Like I said you can go without reading for the mean time, until your financial situation gets better and if you really wanna stop using your phone/pc. If you don't then continue what you're doing.

>>16981624
You may as well read free books online. I mean there are lots, but unfortunately since that'd be done with an electronic device, the tempt to browse the internet will be there. Unless of course you can control yourself

>>16981359
i didn't say it changed for the worst u fat fucking retard. i was pointing out how fucking retarded your 'muh le wrong generation' shit is if you actually think about it for 5 fucking seconds retard. i made no value judgements.

>>16980231
As I was young we played with an wooden cube football and everyone was happy.
People are completely dethatched form reality, and cant enjoy life as I am used to do.

>>16981920
Why is a wooden cube football more of "reality" than a phone?

>>16981002
>the generations after them will be even wors
there aren't defined generations after them yet, which means that zoomers ARE the worst generation, but they won't be the worst generation in the future

>>16981878
Yeah never mentioned anything about the wrong generation bullshit you dip shit.

>>16982014
Think about your question twice.

>>16982144
Okay, I did. Fuck your football there's nothing great about it or I'd be doing that but instead I'm watching and reading things that interest me online

>>16982339
>instead I'm watching and reading things that interest me online
Which are nonphysical activities, in comparison to being outdoors in the real world.

>>16980231
Because companies with tens of billions of dollars in revenue have a vested interest in keeping them online

>>16980264
>muh meme is universal
shut the fuck up nigger there are countless old people to fetishise youth as renewal or revolution and none of this needs to hold for every culture and every generation. look at old interviews and you'll find old people think positively of young people.

>>16980231
Read what Derrida writes about the metaphysics of presence

>>16980861
Being sad for five minutes is being 'depressed' these days because there's money to be made in that diagnosis

>>16982523
This. These kids think, or better said, they "they are the shit" by saying they have depression, which is ridiculous
>Being sad for five minutes is being 'depressed' these days
Exactly. Not to mention that being """depressed""" can sometimes be considered (((a trend))) among young people.

>>16982482
>sees an question beginning with "is there"
>responds with "because"

>>16982482
What does that have to do with the question?

>>16980958
>Addicted is a strong word.
Oops anon should've used a weak word or else they will face their dependency!

>>16981026
Technological slavery includes the Unabomer manifesto, which you would know if you actually read it.

bump

>>16981558
>Go to another library? Or read in library?
are you not aware of covid

>>16981091
>It's true though, give a kid (or anyone) access to the internet, but only give them the ability to access Wikipedia or some other encyclopedia and see how quickly they grow bored of it.

i remember staying for hours in wikipedia when i was 12, heck even before wikipedia, i used to browse microsoft encarta encyclopedia

>>16984416
>microsoft encarta

Fuck, I had totally forgotten about it. Good times.

>>16984416
>encyclopaedia on a single CD
looking back 20 years ago feels like looking into a monkey cage

>>16982510
This exactly. There are about as many old people who consider the youth to be the great hope of mankind as there are old people who think the youth is garbage.

>>16980973
Haha thanks for the laugh anon. Most accurate criticism is always coming from frustration.

>>16980264
If that is the case, the vast majority of them have been correct.

>>16980264
They were right about my generation and my generation is proving correct about the next one.

>>16982464
go fetch your pail of crummy water

>>16980231
Obvious one is byun chul han

>>16981163
Hoping this retard eats the barrel of a pistol

>>16984928
why? not implying there aren't lots of reasons, but anything in particular?

>>16980231
Why do you need a book to tell you? The answer is obvious. How much time do you spend online per day?

>>16980264
Braindead take

>>16982560
you trogladyte, you bafoon, you absolute cretin of society. Kids do not get the final say on whether they are depressed or not, it is the parents that bring them into therapy and psychologists, and then these therapists and psychologists that then diagnose them with depression.

10% of kids are diagnosed with ADHD now, which they are given legal meth to deal with. You wonder why the younger generation have attention problems? Maybe because for some reason millennials have such a hard problem dealing with slightly active or different children that they instantly turn to psychologists and chemicals to treat them. Did you know that 20% of women over 18 are on anti depressants? Did you know that Canada has not approved anti depressants for people under 18, yet somehow doctors are still giving prescription for it?

don't blame the children, for the sins of the parents. when you force your kids to drug up and then give them "nanny ipad" since they were three years old, then yeah this generation might have some problems.

>>16981026
this chart should include cybernetics by weiner

>>16982523
>>16982560
>He doesn't know the method for the diagnosis of depression is standardized
>He doesn't know there are studies that test representative samples of the population
>He doesn't know they show a rise in depression among the youth

>>16980264
The question is how are they decried. Generally it's : "they want to tear the world down! They are arrogant and radical!", and things of the sort. Since the late 70s it's more and more : "they're boring! They're conformists! They have no vitality!". I think that's pretty worrying.

>>16985049
why are you seething like that? also i was not generalizing, but you and i know there are kids who will go on and on about being ((depressed)) because ""nobody likes them,"" which is ridiculous

>>16985263
of course i agree with that, but tons and tons start auto diagnostics, which is obviously not the same as going to a professional to be truly diagnosed with such condition.

>>16985263
Psychologists, doctors and big pharma have every incentive to give diagnoses as freely as possile while maintaining credibility. Patients get free money on sick leave. hmmm

Civilized to Death

>>16980264
>>16980917
It's not clear that "every" generation decried the youth. The obvious times that come to mind all happened during periods of clear degeneration. Present day of course, post WW2, lines in the Iliad, etc. Did older generations say the same things during periods of clear improvement such as the Renaissance or the rise of the Roman empire or the Americans c.1776?

>>16980264
Christ everyone else is a retard. You're right, generational bitching is a lazy meme. So is any technology-related bitching: https://pessimists.co/archive/

>>16981197
Bro you can find this sentiment even in ancient literature. In the Bible it says people are foolish who say the old days are better, which clearly indicates that muh wrong generation has been a view of humans since at least 3000 years ago.
>b-but it’s different this time!
Okay

>>16981285
>>16981328
You are retards. Before the invention of the internet and dopamine technology kids would spend their time outside causing mischief, fighting, stealing, vandalising, etc. Then they would grow up, become addicted to alcohol and gambling, visit whorehouses, etc. This technology has given people a healthier outlet for sexual and escapist needs, which is one of the reasons there is so much less crime and suicide now than in the early 20th century and before.

It's almost impossible to conduct life in modern civilization without "opting in" to social media. Those who choose to avoid it look like pariahs and outcasts. Gen Z is a generation that has been coerced into constant around the clock public exhibitionism of their lives on social media, because to "drop out" of it is to go invisible and to socially cease to exist. Social technology is thus ruthlessly self-reinforcing, if you want to participate and meet other people in your generation, you have to use it, and so you have to pay the costs in mental health, invaded privacy and in superficial, impersonal digital interactions.
2020, with all its remoteness and social distancing, was really an inflection point for this digitalization of social relations and the resultant alienation it brings. Gen Z generally has terrible mental health because the abnormal is normal for them.

>>16986218
People have become completely domesticated cattle, this is why there's 0 revolutionary potential in the first world. Only 3rd world Chads know what's up.

>>16980231
As a (not underage) zoomer, reading this thread got me depressed. I never thought it was that bad. Is there anything I can do?

>>16981595
>A 20 something year old is also a young person
At around 23 years old you're a fully grown adult biologically. At that around that age Alexander the GOAT was already a king and leading fucking armies. What you're describing is manchildren which are a product of a decadent society.

This place is just a constant reiteration of basic bitch points. I started reading a couple months ago and ever since I've been encountering novel ideas, and the world has increasingly become complex. Meanwhile the discourse around here is still mired in trite critiques of social media.

>>16985263
>the method for the diagnosis of depression is standardized
The method actually encourages diagnosis of short term problems. The standardized label makes it seem fair, but the standardized test for depression will miss cases of depression which last a month while it will catch cases which have only been symptomatic for a week as more severe. The standardized approach to treatment also has problems, because it's a flow chart which some drug companies might have basically made as a way to drum up long term customers and maximize revenues. There is a reason why a "standard" case of depression post 1990 will look very different to a classic case before that: we have standardized it to treat only mild short term depression. That doesn't mean the rarer cases which used be considered depression went away, but they are not as profitable to treat and they are generally seen as unlikely to react to any medication. Essentially what we've done is set the standard so we treat the great swathe of worried well, and ignore anyone with classic depression. It's a numbers game, and you cannot build a growth industry on rare illnesses the way you can with common ones. If you use the old standard, the majority of people with a depression diagnosis would cease to be patients.

>>16981091
I grew my addiction to porn from those shitty wikipedia articles and images. Maybe if I never found ED I'd be slightly different but wikipedia is more than enough to encourage curiosity and revolt.

>>16986218
>sedate the public so they don't cause any trouble

Isn't this what Aldous Huxley warned us about?

>>16987027
>trite critiques of social media
The only reason you think it's trite is because it's common and unremarkable. That doesn't make it any less vulgar. The same thing can be said for the obesity epidemic and rampant sexual degeneracy that plagues society. It's not controversial or edgy to say these things are bad simply because of how common they are. It doesn't make them any less disgusting.

>>16986218
>healthier
Maybe on a physical level, but the more perfect society gets, the more psychotic we become.

>>16986873
>Alexander the GOAT
Lol, you have no right to call others manchildren or complain about decadence

>>16986153

Explain why it isn't different. Good reasons for why it is have been already posted in this thread.

>>16981536
>paying for a library card
What the fuck?

>>16986266
Underrated post

>>16986266
>because to "drop out" of it is to go invisible and to socially cease to exist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W6HhdqA95w
It's actually a blessing

>>16987436
I'm not excluding myself from my statement.

>>16987713
Yeah, I enjoy it a lot. Fuck being plugged in, I am living my own life and nobody else's.

>>16987798
>>16987713
bros I'm all the way plugged in and I hate it, any tips?

>>16987798
I'm not claiming to be omnipotent or superior to other people or whatever, but I can really relate to the part where he says that he is tired of being caught in the tangle of other people's lives.

>>16987817
just delete the accounts lmao. if something is causing you unnecessary stress in life, remove it.

most social media lets you temporarily disable accounts. maybe give that a try first and see how you feel after a week or two. that's what i did, and when i came back i just deleted it completely. logging back onto facebook was like showing back up to work after a camping trip.

>>16980264
This is such a lazy way to dismiss the question. Why can't these concerns, in their particular contexts, have been correct? Even if they were wrong, that doesn't automatically invalidate the same lament today. And the concerns today often centre around unique technologies that have never existed - instant mass media and culture, globalised identities, virtual living, etc.

>>16986266
4chan is social media too, which makes the definition much broader. I know you're talking about public social media like Facebook but I think it goes deeper than public exhibitionism. There's something about interconnectedness, the desire to be part of the world instead of a little town in the middle of nowhere.

>>16987817
You will 100% lose friends if you do what I did, but that was fine because I was essentially on the periphery of that social group where they would hang out and do stuff without me anyway. Then they tried to guilt trip me into thinking that I needed them after I deleted all of my accounts etc. I still have like one or two very good friends from middle school and they're basically the only guys I actually talk to. I haven't touched a woman in 3 years. I find that solitude is preferable to interacting with "people" who have devolved into projections of their deepest anxieties and fears. That's what the Internet is turning most people into, anyway.

>>16987817
>>16987839
If you delete your accounts make sure that you will not leave behind any data that you will not be able to change after it's gone. Have a plan if you want to disappear.

>>16987868
Other deleter here. I definitely lost friends as well but its such an unfounded fear, you likely don't care about them. I didn't give a fuck about 99% of the people on my lists, and the ones who I did care about had my phone number. I scared myself with the fear of loss but there was nothing to fear at all.

>>16987868
Same here, lost all friends, didn't get laid since. I became an outcast but I like to live as far off from society as possible anyway, I like nature and animals more than cities and people. When I miss having a love life it hurts extremely bad.

>>16987888
Exactly. If you have any anxiety about deleting an account, you're already thinking way more about the people you are connected with than what they think about you.

>>16987903
None of my relationships came from social media so I don't really get this sentiment. I still keep snapchat but facebook, instagram, twitter are useless to me. All they did was barrage me with worthless information every day.

>>16985950
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O_tempora,_o_mores!

>>16980276
Postman is a hack, he made the same points as Lasch and McLuhan without even half the insight.

>>16981091
I agree. I always seem to end up on the same few apps and websites and the thing they have in common is constant novelty. Wikipedia is designed to keep you browsing to some extent with all the hyperlinks and whatnot, but not nearly as much as the likes of YouTube, 4chan, Instagram etc. Credit to Wikipedia, it's a genuine service

>>16980973
i agree you with you but the way you type is a little faggy

>>16980231
>why
They've had their expectations, experiences, and attention span subverted by billion-dollar, multinational companies.

>>16987868
>I find that solitude is preferable to interacting with "people" who have devolved into projections of their deepest anxieties and fears.
Agreed 10000%

>>16980231
You are conflating the cause with the effect/s; the effect/s may recursively perpetuate, either: the weaknesses, or: the strengths, of the cause; Hypermodernism fosters addictive tendencies in general, regardless of any particular mediums, or activities, that may facilitate addiction/attachment.

>>16980231

Yeah probably a lot of them
I'd write one right now if I felt like it

>>16989047
>You are [probably] conflating the cause with the effect/s;

>>16987868
>solitude is preferable to interacting with "people" who have devolved into projections of their deepest anxieties and fears

but this is the basis of compensatory animal behavior. we are all born with certain things out of place and armoring those weakpoints we offset somehting else, usually something regarding proper treatment of others. it is a very lonely life to shut yourself off of other people because they are imperfect, and in your own way a cope with your deficiency interacting with others no doubt.

>>16989085
>it is a very lonely life to shut yourself off of other people because they are imperfect, and in your own way a cope with your deficiency interacting with others no doubt.

You're presuming he'll feel lonely due to this -- or that everyone will feel lonely due to lacking interaction. Not everyone reacts the same, of course.

People cope by projection; people cope by retraction; people cope. That's just the reality. You can't really guilt someone into wanting to interact more if they honestly don't want to.

>walking through the park in my city
>every trail is full of thots snapping pictures of each other for social media

leave mother nature ALONE

>>16989085
This is the same kind of mindset that women use to justify staying in abusive relationships.
>It's my fault!
>He has a good heart!
>I still love him despite his flaws!
The truth is that most people aren't worth interacting with, and the Internet has made this more apparent than ever.

>>16989090
sure. and there is good argument to be made around the legitimacy of solitude. i for one appreciate my time alone. but i also consider antisociality to be an essential failure on the part of the individual and a failure in the eyes of a god whose sole purpose for the individual is to provide value to the opposite sex and procreate.

>>16989106
Trade me places. There are no women on the trails where I live.