/tolk/ - J. R. R. Tolkien General

[Anonymous No.23355870]

>Favorite Tolkien work
>Favorite Tolkien character
>Favorite Tolkien theme

[Anonymous No.23355876]

>>23355870
I like that book of his where they take a ring across the land and throw it into a volcano

[Anonymous No.23356032]

Children of Hurin was kino and sad, felt hard at the end.

[Anonymous No.23356082]

>>23355870
>Favorite Tolkien work
The unfinished "definitive" version of The Fall of Gondolin.
>Favorite Tolkien character
Beren, he was a chad.
>Favorite Tolkien theme
The gift of Ilúvatar.

[Anonymous No.23356101]

>>23355870
Supposedly all Tolkien video interviews compiled
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTz2-im7s9k&ab_channel=TalkingAboutTolkien

[Anonymous No.23356122]

Silmarillion
Feanor
Necessity/inevitability of evil

[Anonymous No.23356134]

>>23355870
>LOTR
>Feanor
>"The Shadow that bred them can only mock, it cannot make: not real new things of its own"

[Anonymous No.23357160]

>>23355870
He’s so chill here.

[Anonymous No.23357172]

>>23355870
Tolkien = comfy

[Anonymous No.23357182]

>>23355870
Weren't Tolkien, Lewis, and the other Inklings heretics? I understand they were adapting Christianity to a postmodernist ethos, but in the process weren't they rejecting what are supposed to be the central teachings of their religion? I mean, if the Council of Nice had had to settle the question of whether God became a lion, it would have anathematized anyone who confessed such a belief, even contingently. Tolkien's fiction doesn't fly in the face of Christian teaching quite so directly, but the creation of the Elves, a higher race than man, does make the notion of men as stewards of the earth, and of God incarnating himself as a man, problematic. I understand these were works of fiction they were writing, but to the extent these works guide postwar readers to Christianity when earlier Christian literature would have failed, it's a Christianity unrecognizable to prewar believers.

[Anonymous No.23357469]

>Favourite work
Children of Hurin
>Favourite character
Treebeard
>Favourite theme
The yuga style decay of ages

Tolkien is a consistently 4/5 author for me. I like a lot of his work but I wish it was possible to talk about him without people pretending the works don't have glaring flaws or saying that the whole of fantasy has to be like Tolkien.

[Anonymous No.23357518]

>>23357182
Tolkien in his later life removed the dagor dagorath concept just because he was worried about it coming off as pro-pagan

[Anonymous No.23357544]

>>23357182
It's fiction, mate.

[Anonymous No.23357557]

>>23355870
Lord of the Rings
Sam
Going on and trying your best, even if it seems hopeless.

[Anonymous No.23357648]

>>23357544
Sure, but I guess my question is how fiction can guide readers toward Christianity, especially if the cosmology of the world your story is set in differs from that of Christianity.

[Anonymous No.23357655]

>>23357648
So you think it's blasphemous to write non-Christian fiction? are writers/artists supposed to create all their work with a 100% Christian worldview?

[Anonymous No.23357664]

>>23357655
No, but if you're specifically setting out to write fiction that presents Christianity in a more (post-)modern light, and you come up with a story whose setting tends to contradict orthodox Christianity, then I'm justified in asking you how you've succeeded in doing what you've set out to do.

[Anonymous No.23357741]

Rereading LOTR. Just got done with "The Council of Elrond" tonight. I'd forgotten how interesting Gloin's part of the chapter is. There are a lot of narrators at the Council who slowly piece together what the state of the world is before we get to the big decision about the Ring. Boromir tells us about Gondor; we get Aragorn's history and the current state of the Dunedan; Legolas tells us the current state of Mirkwood and about Gollum's escape; Gandalf fills in the time between Bilbo getting the Ring and the present day, and tells about Saruman's betrayal. It's all portrayed really well, and the narrative device of the Council helps give it some dynamism, since you get the sense that this information is all being laid out to help the Council come to a decision about the Ring.

[Anonymous No.23357788]

>>23356082
Can you elaborate on the gift of Iluvatar? Why is that your favorite theme? His writings are stacked with themes.

[Anonymous No.23357983]

Need new copies of the trilogy, the bindings on my old paperback I got as a a kid are worn to shit and falling apart. Is the Harper Collins hardcover gift set any good or are they too small? Is it the 1st edition facsimile edition of The Hobbit included?

[Anonymous No.23359254]

Who's your favorite character that didn't make it into the movies?

For me, it's Beregond. I love that dude.

[Anonymous No.23359487]

>>23359254
Glorfindel, but I can understand why Jackson didn't include him. Without the appendices that explain who he is, it's probably better not to have him

[Anonymous No.23360746]

>>23357983
They're a little small, like pocket hobbit sized and the print isn't great because of it. I'm a little torn because I have the omnibus paperback lotr and it's a bear to hold, but decent 3 volume hardcovers are all ridiculously expensive for what you get. https://www.amazon.com/Lord-Rings-J-R-Tolkien/dp/0395489326/ would be my choice because https://www.amazon.com/Lord-Rings-Boxed-Set-Tolkien/dp/0007581149/ is just really expensive and I don't give a fuck about the companion book. It and the 75th anniversary Hobbit are probably worth it, but prices on half decent hardcovers suck.

[Anonymous No.23362013]

>>23357664
>if you're specifically setting out to write fiction that presents Christianity
you're confusing lewis with tolkien
just because the latter's work contains element and themes which bled from his christian sensibilities, doesn't mean he purposely set out to make a Christian book

[Anonymous No.23362052]

>>23362013
>just because the latter's work contains element and themes which bled from his christian sensibilities, doesn't mean he purposely set out to make a Christian book

There's that line in the introduction where he specifically says he didn't consciously set out to write a Christian work, but found he had put those themes in it anyway. But this line from Fellowship always stuck out to me as referring to how his outlook bleeds into the book:
>They are fair garments, and the web is good, for it was made in this land. They are Elvish robes certainly, if that is what you mean. Leaf and branch, water and stone: they have the hue and beauty of all these things under the twilight of Lórien that we love; for we put the thought of all that we love into all that we make.

[Anonymous No.23362400]

>>23362013
>doesn't mean he purposely set out to make a Christian book
Whether it began as Christian or not is up for debate, but there are some definitely intentional Christian elements in lotr. For example, the fellowship first leaves Rivendell with the ring on December 25th (Jesus' birth, obviously) and the ring is finally destroyed on March 25th, the day Jesus was crucified according to his tradition.

[Anonymous No.23363478]

>>23360746
Yea I went to the book store today and saw them in person. They are tiny, I guess it'd be good for travelling or something. I forgot I had some gift cards to use up so I ended up getting the Harper Collins set illustrated by Alan Lee.

[Anonymous No.23363485]

>>23362013
>>23362052
>>23362400
I once saw LOTR described as "Not a Christian story, but a story only a Christian could tell," which seems like the best description of it to me.

[Anonymous No.23363892]

What is the consensus here about the Amazon show?

[Anonymous No.23363898]

>>23363892
it's gay and I'll never watch it

[Anonymous No.23363920]

>>23363892
It's dogshit.

[Anonymous No.23363989]

>>23363892
it's a show for women. See all the Galadrial X Sauron shipping that has come from it

[Anonymous No.23364027]

>>23355870
i like the tolkien book by tolkien where the tolkien character says it was me i was tolkien all along and he starts to tolkien all over the place

[Anonymous No.23364188]

>>23355870
>Favorite Tolkien work
LOTR
>Favorite Tolkien character
Man, it's hard for me to choose. Gun to the head it's probably Samwise
>Favorite Tolkien theme
Men's inherent weakness to power

Also, one of Pippin's chapter has one of my favorite LOTR quotes:
"‘So it ends as I guessed it would,’ his thought said, even as it fluttered away; and it laughed a little within him ere it fled, almost gay it seemed to be casting off at last all doubt and care and fear. And then even as it winged away into forgetfulness it heard voices, and they seemed to be crying in some forgotten world far above:

‘The Eagles are coming! The Eagles are coming!’

For one moment more Pippin’s thought hovered. ‘Bilbo!’ it said. ‘But no! That came in his tale, long long ago. This is my tale, and it is ended now. Good-bye!’ And his thought fled far away and his eyes saw no more."
Always hits me right in the soul, man...

[Anonymous No.23364201]

One of my favorite scenes:

>Sam, eager to see more, went now and joined the guards. He scrambled a little way up into one of the larger of the bay-trees. For a moment he caught a glimpse of swarthy men in red running down the slope some way off with green-clad warriors leaping after them, hewing them down as they fled. Arrows were thick in the air. Then suddenly straight over the rim of their sheltering bank, a man fell, crashing through the slender trees, nearly on top of them. He came to rest in the fern a few feet away, face downward, green arrow-feathers sticking from his neck below a golden collar. His scarlet robes were tattered, his corslet of overlapping brazen plates was rent and hewn, his black plaits of hair braided with gold were drenched with blood. His brown hand still clutched the hilt of a broken sword.

>It was Sam’s first view of a battle of Men against Men, and he did not like it much. He was glad that he could not see the dead face. He wondered what the man’s name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would not really rather have stayed there in peace — all in a flash of thought which was quickly driven from his mind.

[Anonymous No.23364227]

>>23355870
>Favorite Tolkien work
The Silmarillion
>Favorite Tolkien character
Gollum
>Favorite Tolkien theme
Evil corrupting noble souls

[Anonymous No.23364234]

>>23355870
>>Favorite Tolkien work
Still the Hobbit, even after all these years
>>Favorite Tolkien character
Sam or Boromir
>>Favorite Tolkien theme
Friendship :)

[Anonymous No.23364347]

>>23355870
>LOTR
>Gimli (I have figures of him, Legolas, and a (Nazgûl)
>Either Friendship, taking fate into your own hands, or how the glory of the past slowly fades away.

>>23363920
>The obligatory character who only appears once and who devotes his entire existence to being as racist as possible toward the main character in this very moment.

[Anonymous No.23364381]

>>23357182
If you haven't, you should read Tolkien's essay titled 'On Faery Stories'. I think some of what you're getting at is addressed in it. It's especially interesting near the end when he expresses his wish/suspicion that after the resurrection man will be able to take an active creative and somehow authoritative role in creation. It honestly reminded me of the Mormon idea that you get your own planet and all that. Of course he's very subtle about it.

[Anonymous No.23365259]

>>23364381
I believe he has a description of something to that effect (man taking part in creation) in one of the books too, I believe the Silmarillion, but maybe one of the others.

[Anonymous No.23365292]

>>23355870

[Khata !QbbPtVuCKo No.23366185]

>>23355870
Bump.
>Favorite Tolkien work
Tolkien's complete works.
>Favorite Tolkien character
Bombadilo.
>Favorite Tolkien theme
Fantasia.

[Anonymous No.23366219]

>>23363478
So is this the best edition to buy?

t. new parent who wants to give his kid the best set

I just have an omnibus paperback.

[Anonymous No.23366690]

I adore Feanor, and even Hurin from the poem version. There are some fantastic moments which are buried in HoMe which aren't easy to just search online and quote from.

>>23357983
>>23360746
Ya'll absolutely should do what works for you. I have fancy-ass huge expensive rare versions and cheap paperback worn-out ones but the ones which actually get most palm-time are my leather-cover versions of the gift set (they're hardcovers in your pic), simply because they are so convenient. I ain't dragging those massive one-volume tomes just to the store to wait in line. Those pocket-sized ones are perfect both for home reference and for travel.

>>23364188
>This is my tale, and it is ended now. Good-bye!’ And his thought fled far away and his eyes saw no more."
Just read this a few days ago in my yearly read-through. Tears happened.

>>23364201
Absolutely a top-ten Tolkien moment.

>>23366219
If you own no other Tolkien stuff, get the Illustrated By The Author ones (not illustrated by others). The pictures are available elsewhere, but works great as a stand-alone if you don't obsessively care.

[Anonymous No.23367311]

>>23355870
hmm..
>Favorite Tolkien work
The Lord of the Rings
>Favorite Tolkien character
Frodo
>Favorite Tolkien theme
I guess his take on the Hero's Journey; Frodo goes to Mt. Doom carrying the most accursed object in his world, it gets destroyed basically by accident since Frodo gave in in the last second but Smeagol showed up and they struggle for it and Smeagol gets the ring but fall off to the lava. And then when they are back in town, fight Saruman and his goons, and then after some time Frodo finds out he can't really integrate back to society having lived through all this journey and ends up sailing to the Grey Havens. There's this element of not belonging to the "ordinary world" anymore.

[Anonymous No.23367496]

Silmarilion
Fingolfin
The romantic view of the human spirit

[Anonymous No.23367505]

Picrel is p. great. I wanna read Roverandom someday but I fear it's going to be sad.

[Anonymous No.23367510]

For me, it's LOTR illustrated by Frank Frazetta.

[Anonymous No.23367512]

>>23357469
>I wish it was possible to talk about him without people pretending the works don't have glaring flaws
Such as?

[Anonymous No.23367516]

>>23367512
The fact that "only" Mount Doom was hot and fiery enough to destroy the One Ring is kind of a macguffin. How hot is lava? Surely a sufficient furnace should be able to reach the same temperature.

[Anonymous No.23367520]

>>23367516
Maybe the mineral that made the rings was only found in mount doom, i.e the lava is the mineral in liquid form and no other fire is hot enough anywhere in middle earth, same with mithril minerals only found in certain places, or the same with our world with metallic hydrogen only found on the surface of jupiter and saturn because of the immense pressures within, its only a macguffin if you have the imagination of a warthog.

[Anonymous No.23367521]

>>23367516
Mount Doom was there the ring was forged in the first place, the ring could only be destroyed in the same place where it had been forged because it's special like that. It has nothing to do with temperatures. Educate yourself.

[Anonymous No.23367535]

>>23367516
it's not about temperature, and that's not even what "macguffin" means.

[Anonymous No.23367836]

>>23366690
I'll look into that one. Essentially I am looking for a food version to spark a boy's imagination and keep him interested from an early age while I read it aloud to him.

[Anonymous No.23368334]

>>23357788
>the gift of Iluvatar?
Different anon but I believe The Gift of Iluvatar is mortality.
The elves are the permanent fixtures in the world with designed purpose while Mortality gives the races of Men power over themselves in a fundamentally different and more profound way.

[Elliot's Husband !!UeLxjR8BrJ6 No.23368858]

>>23355870
LoTR
Elrond
Ruralism and ruralist idylic utopia

[Anonymous No.23368936]

>>23355870
Farmer Giles of Ham
Farmer Giles of Ham
Farmer Giles of Ham

[Anonymous No.23368978]

>>23355870
LotR (bc I'm a normiefag)
Samwise Gamgee (be that friend)
Hope (have yet to see a book do hope this well)

[Anonymous No.23368990]

>>23368334
To expand on this: Elves are forever tied to the world, but men go beyond the world to something different. Self-determination during this lifetime is one aspect; they are not subject to the same restrictions as the elves. It gets muddy because everybody has free will, but men especially are free to exercise things elves could not.

[Anonymous No.23368995]

>>23368990
Why do Dwarves and beasts and birds die though?

[Anonymous No.23369027]

>>23368995
idk about animals (besides the fact they do irl), but I think with dwarves it's the theme of stubbornness and pride. Men are like 2/3 of the population, die in the frequent battles, and the women dwarves (being just as stuborn) often don't marry unless it's THE dwarf they want. This means they have below replacement level reproduction that slowly sees them fade from middle earth (following the theme in LotR of all the magic races disappearing).

Note: this is just as i think i know it. I'm not 100%