/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.10541557]

I'm 5 hours into this game, just before facing the dragon boss. Over the years I have read many opinions about this game, ranging from a masterpiece to a convoluted mess. And I can see both sides, but I'm afraid I must side with the critics in this one.

The game looks really good, the story looks mysterious but I can't say much about it for now and the game represents so far the most ambitious ATB system square put into a game since FF4, Super Mario RPG and Parasite Eve. But there are many things I dislike:

- It is a dungeon crawler with very similar and boring environment. I think they really nailed down the gothic look and oppression, but there isn't much going on besides it, every room is pretty much a clone.
- There are the "cube puzzles" but don't expect Tomb Raider tier environment puzzles. I'd rather not have them at all.
- So the only thing to do in this game is fighting. The system is well though out, the most complex and ambitious from square yet, but in my opinion also overkill for just one character. You will use the same chains all the time. It doesn't help that up to now I must have faced no more than 5 different kind of enemies. And that's it, kill skeletons and wolves for five hours while pushing blocks to solve predictable zelda tier puzzles but while moving at 1/2 of the original speed.
- I don't mind autistic crafting systems but when I play a dungeon crawler or any action or tactic game I just want to kill, not to bother about the best combination out of a thousand mediocre ones to get a reasonable useful weapon or armor.

I think they put so much focus into the combat and crafting system itself that they forgot completely about the actual meat, the content of the game. It's like a roguelike or diablo clone that looks good but it's very empty, which surprises me coming from Square. By comparison, Parasite Eve is much simpler, but that makes the peace more bearable despite it also featuring a crafting system.

[Anonymous No.10541604]

I was thinking of emulating this, now I won't.

[Anonymous No.10541610]

Don't you get out of the dungeons and into the city after a while? It's a long time since I played it and I never got past the snowy forest but there were definitely other environments after a while.

[Anonymous No.10541634]

Great master's thesis written after playing 3% of the game. You've really gotten down to the core of the game in this one. Congratulations on writing the definitive piece on Vagrant Story.

[Anonymous No.10541670]

>>10541557
I never understood the crafting system in that game. Even at the end of a 20h playthrough and reading some guides about damage calculations I was still doing 0 damage to a lot of enemies which was really annoying so I ended up relying on raging ache for everything. Maybe I'm just retarded

[Anonymous No.10541682]

>>10541634
Actually it's 13%, I assume it will take me 50 hours to beat the game at this rate, but I'm not using any walkthrough. Of course my opinion may change after 20 hours of gameplay, but I doubt it. I thought 5 hours were more than enough to share my opinion. What's yours?

>>10541604
Heh, that would be a shame. I respect Square for trying to push their systems, in some ways vagrant story is an evolution of parasite eve. But in my eyes it's just very flawed. Something I can grab and follow through from time to time but not pay full attention like I do with many square games.

With the combat system they tried to pull off a Mario RPG where you can chain multiple combos but I think in that game it worked better due to using more characters (failing when you only control one means receiving more damage in the long run).
Worst of all, you need to be really precise when timing out your inputs, but this is hard when every weapon and animation have their own timings. And you can trigger special defense skills, but for that you need to know well every attack from every enemy, which on the other hand shouldn't be that hard when so far I have battle fewer than 10 different creatures in 5 hours.

>>10541670
That's the problem I have with the dragon right now, I can't hurt the bastard even with the right gem. I guess I need to disassemble my weapons and turbo test every combination until I get something useful against lizards.

[Anonymous No.10541684]

>>10541682
Also I'd like to mention that from what I gather the story is top notch so I'll just go with it and see what's next.

[Anonymous No.10541687]

AAA kusoge

[Anonymous No.10541730]

the best advice for vagrant story to not waste tons of time managing shit is to keep it simple. the physical damage types (bludgeon, piercing, edged) matter far more than anything else. you can tool with your gear later on if you want, like if you want to put a water gem in your shit against a fire djinn, but you can largely just use whatever seems best in a general gaming sense. then, sometimes with like dragons/wyverns you need to figure out that it's like the tail or a leg you should be hitting. buff/debuff, and whale on it. i just use the chain ability that restores durability so i can keep both bars full and don't really chain that much unless maybe i want to inflict silence

as for crafting, i really don't feel like it's a large part of the game, and the supposed intricacies are kind of an illusion. once in a while you'll be lucky enough to make something that's clearly better/same type as the component weapon you're trying to improve but it's never gamebreaking

>>10541557
>cube puzzles
the funniest part is that you can bypass most of them with clever jumping, especially once you start picking up the item that increases your speed/jump height. then once you get to the final area it punishes you with unskippable puzzles. also, there's one lever in the beginning of the game, making you think it's going to be a big deal, then you forget about it until there's one random out-of-place lever you need to pull in the last dungeon to unlock a door on an entirely different floor

[Anonymous No.10542023]

>>10541670
If the game had a qol mod that let you bind three weapons to seamlessly switch between on the dpad instead of having to go I to a menu it would be about as playable as most PS1 action RPGs and people would understand it instead of raging aching for two hours then dropping it

[Anonymous No.10542025]

>>10542023
And throw in the game not stopping for ten seconds when anyone casts a spell and it would go from showstopping bad gameplay to good enough

[Anonymous No.10542031]

>>10541682
The enemy type affinities do next to nothing, damage type (as in blunt, slash, etc) and to some extent elemental affinities are the only thing anyone with one non-autistic neuron in their brain should bother ever considering

[Anonymous No.10542992]

>>10542023
Yeah, having a quick way to switch weapons would be a huge benefit to the game. Using the inventory in general feels very slow and tedious.
I don't know why they gave the analyze spell a chance to miss since it's an important spell needed to engage in the battle mechanics.

Overall I'm not super happy that I had to rely on raging ache for everything but the alternatives are just too frustrating.

[Anonymous No.10542995]

>>10541557
>the most ambitious ATB system square put into a game since FF4
It's not the ATB, what the fuck are you talking about?

[Anonymous No.10543003]

>>10541730
This is the diametral opposite of how to play the game. You can beat it the way you describe (don't bother with weapon design and just chain), but it turns the game into a hideous chore. The only enjoyable way to play VS (and there, unfortunately, is only one) is to read and understand the in-game manual (it's in the menu), meticulously design every piece of equipment, and never EVER chain unless the chain kills the enemy. Ashley is harder to manage than your entire army in Tactics Ogre and FFT, which is the point of the game. If you don't do this, the game will wear you out with 1hkos and you will eventually drop it.

[Anonymous No.10543018]

>>10543003
I wouldn't say never chain, but you should keep them pretty damn short since the RISK goes up exponentially with each hit.

[Anonymous No.10543061]

>>10543003
>1hkos
Were you primarily using 2H weapons? Shields add a massive amount of defence and evasion, whereas 2H weapons don't give that much additional offensive potential over 1H weapons. As long as your RISL isn't high, 1HKOs pretty much never happen if you have a good shield.

>>10543018
RISK only spikes if you try to chain more than 8 hits. Although there are some bosses that have a hidden chain evasion stat, so using short chains on them is still counter productive.

[Anonymous No.10543072]

>>10542995
>It's not the ATB, what the fuck are you talking about?
It's an evolution of it yes, we are talking about square here. The ATB in FF and in later games tried to add some spice to an otherwise turn based system by forcing you to act quickly. Since then more and more games refined said system. Mario RPG added the chained attacks and it looks like VS took several cues from it.

[Anonymous No.10543098]

>>10543072
No, the game does not have an ATB system at all. ATB (active time battle) is when, instead of being strictly turn-based, everyone has a real-time cooldown timer before being allowed to take a turn. Parasite Eve 1 is an ATB game, but Vagrant Story simply isn't.

[Anonymous No.10543151]

>>10543072
>>10543098
I don't have any proof on hand, but I recall really early screenshots of VS had an TIME gauge below the MP gauge.

[Anonymous No.10543160]

>>10543072
>>10543098
>>10543151
I was wrong. The additional gauge below MP says WT. That could mean Wait Time (or something similar), but it could also mean something else altogether. Either way, that fourth gauge didn't make it into the final game.

[Anonymous No.10543179]

>>10543098
>everyone has a real-time cooldown timer before being allowed to take a turn.
Then how VS is not ATB based?

[Anonymous No.10543217]

>>10543003
i don’t know how you interpreted me saying i don’t really chain all that much as “chain all day baby,” but ok. i generally just pepper in single chains to attacks here and there to keep durability high, and if i get carried away i just use a vera item

>harder to manage than your entire army in Tactics Ogre and FFT
…it’s really not that bad. equipment particulars just do not make as big of a difference as you say. buffing/debugging is far more vital

>1hko
if you pile up 100 risk and then put your equipment away, maybe?

[Anonymous No.10543381]

>>10541687
/vr/ kusopost

[Anonymous No.10543418]

>>10542023
This is the perfect example of a game that could easily be made much more enjoyable with the most minor changes. I really wish it would get that tactics ogre treatment by a thoughtful director. As it is it's just a failed design even conceptually never mind execution issues from being a PS1 game.

[Anonymous No.10543490]

>>10541634
A game should be fun within the first 5 minutes.

[Anonymous No.10543767]

>>10543418
>I really wish it would get that tactics ogre treatment by a thoughtful director.
What treatment are you talking about, the psp port?

[Anonymous No.10544084]

The pros are the phenomenal graphics, compelling story, and totally unique combat mechanics.

The cons are the stupid box puzzles, the fact that you get a roulette wheel for stat bonuses, repetitive environments, and opaque crafting system.

The worst part is how poorly everything is explained. You can absolutely break the game if you fully understand the crafting system and combat mechanics. You don't even have to play "well," the game is literally trivial if you regularly perform competent crafting.

The game also poorly explains how enemy damage is calculated. The combat becomes 10x easier once you learn that Affinity provides only a small bonus, and Type provides a huge bonus. So you can literally ignore Affinity. As long as you craft and focus on attacking with the correct weapon Type, you will absolutely trivialize the game. It's like including Affinity was done as a massive red herring and distraction so players wouldn't realize this. It's weird.

[Anonymous No.10544167]

>>10544084
You're confusing "Affinity" with "Class". Affinity is extremely important, which is why the game gives you spells that infuse your weapon with certain affinities (which also cuts down on the need for weapon switching by a lot).

[Anonymous No.10544189]

>>10541634
>it gets fun 40 hours in

[Anonymous No.10544728]

Agreed, it should play like an Assassin's Creed or Dark Souls game.

[Anonymous No.10544735]

>>10541557
>you'll use the same chains all the time
Soon
>help guys I can't beat this boss

[Anonymous No.10544780]

>>10544084
>roulette wheel for stat bonuses
You are supposed to play it multiple times. I think I had a maxed save once.

[Anonymous No.10545549]

>>10543217
If you didn't mean any of that, then cool. Lots of people play it the way I described and drop the game, which is why I wrote what I wrote. You can probably see how your post can be interpreted that way, too.
I just think telling people to stress less over equipment and chain more doesn't help because what many players need to realize to have fun with VS is that equipment IS THE GAME, and chains probably shouldn't even be there because they're so misleading as to what you're supposed to do while fighting.

[Anonymous No.10545598]

Warcraft and Langrisser are better than Ogre Battle
Parasite Eve is better than Vagrant Story
Vandal Hearts and Shing Force are better than Tactics Ogre and FFT
FFX is better than FFXII
Took me long enough to realize Mastuno never made an actual good game

[Anonymous No.10545668]

>>10541557
The battle system is very cool but indeed overkill. As the game process the battles become more and more of a clusterfuck.

[Anonymous No.10545670]

>>10543418
Lets do a mod for vagrant story.

[Anonymous No.10545676]

>>10545598
>Warcraft and Langrisser are better than Ogre Battle
True for Warcraft but Ogre Battle 64 is better than any Langrisser game
>Parasite Eve is better than Vagrant Story
True
>Vandal Hearts and Shining Force are better than Tactics Ogre and FFT
Lmao no
>FFX is better than FFXII
Nah, FFX is a contender for most overrated game of all time

[Anonymous No.10545723]

>>10545598
>plebian is always better you guys!

[Anonymous No.10545756]

>>10545598
>Took me long enough to realize Mastuno never made an actual good game
this, but it probably took me less time than you. fuck matsuno and all the retards sucking his cock.

[Anonymous No.10545907]

>>10545549
>stress less over equipment
paying a modicum of attention to parameters is good. mindfully managing affinities, blindly hunting for slightly advantageous equipment fusions, things like that don’t pay out on the time/effort/reward paradigm. if a boss still isn’t taking much damage after buffs/debuffs, sure, i’ll dig for a gem, but that’s rare

>chain more
no, i actually don’t see how my post can be interpreted that way. what one should infer is that there are some chain abilities that are useful for upkeep or against specific enemies

[Anonymous No.10545914]

>>10541557
>retarded zoom zoom gets filtered

[Anonymous No.10545937]

>>10545914
Good argument faggot. Did I hurt your feelings?

[Anonymous No.10546097]

I just remembered the phantom points mechanic existing, which basically guaranteed people playing casually will never never realize a new weapon they got is stronger than what they have when they try it out

[Anonymous No.10546421]

well it definitely looks boring.